InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "pop goes the weasel"

randomsome1 (randomsome1) wrote,
@ 2009-10-08 17:28:00

Pittsburgh & the G20

Jesus Christ, I lived there. I found a pigeon that'd flown into a window on that stairwell--I brought it home so it'd be okay. I've used that over-street bridge any number of times.

It's like a fucking war zone.

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	sirena_lune 2009-10-09 01:19 am UTC (link)
	This rental computer is crap, so I can't actually see the video, but the audio itself sounds pretty damn scary. D: What the hell is going on exactly? ignorant >.>;; (Reply to this) (Thread)

randomsome1
2009-10-09 05:37 am UTC (link)

During and after the G20 summit, protesters swarmed Pittsburgh around the convention center (where the summit was being held) and in Oakland--because Oakland is pretty much Pittsburgh's hot spot for rioting (see the videos from the Super Bowl riots) and because IIRC the G20 summit dinner was held at Phipps Conservatory, a stone's throw from Pitt campus.

College kids came out to see and/or participate in the riots--because hey, it's certainly different. Police attacked them for being on the street; police trapped them in a campus stairwell and pelted them with tear gas canisters; police maced them for attempting to get back into their dorm rooms and police attacked and beat them for walking across the lawn of the Cathedral--Pitt's most easily recognized academic building.

I hear multiple lawsuits are pending. I hope they stick. As it is, Pitt's gonna have to do massive damage control.

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	yonmei 2009-10-09 01:04 pm UTC (link)
	While totally feeling for the students who were under attack, I'm likewise unimpressed by the police attacks on G20 protesters as usual: nothing like riot police for turning peaceful protest into riot, is there? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	randomsome1 2009-10-09 04:22 pm UTC (link)
	Pretty much--there comes a point where the presence of everyone involved only serves to escalate things. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	wingedrivers 2009-10-09 06:15 pm UTC (link)
	Except when the protesters throw bricks at the police and shove a dumpster at them. Attacks on the peaceful protesting = not nessessary Attacks on the idiots with the hankerchiefs and who did not get a permit to protest = justified (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

yonmei
2009-10-09 06:45 pm UTC (link)

There is nothing like riot police to turn a peaceful protest into a riot.

Except when the protesters throw bricks at the police and shove a dumpster at them.

Yeah; when the police attack protesters, some of the protesters are going to hit back. Futilely, of course - indeed, initial police attacks on protests are usually aimed to get exactly this kind of futile/violent reaction to "justify" their escalation of the violence.

Attacks on the idiots with the hankerchiefs and who did not get a permit to protest = justified

Idiots who believed in the US Constitution, First Amendment. Attacked by police who had been ordered to defy the Constitution and break up a peaceful assembly. It's what happens.

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	randomsome1 2009-10-09 08:01 pm UTC (link)
	You saw the part of the vid where the kid threw the tear gas back at the police, right? I cheered for him a bit. (Reply to this) (Parent)

wingedrivers
2009-10-11 02:39 am UTC (link)

But the permit is to protect those protesting- to ensure that they block off the correct streets so that the protesters have a safe road to protest and won't disrupt traffic, and so those in traffic will be redirected. And if what they're protesting is offensive to some groups (such as white power, or abortion... weh, well all of it), then the police are there to protect the protesters from attacks.

But I can see how quickly it can get out of hand with just one simple comment or rock throw- and this is assuming that all of the police are not corrupt/trouble-makers/half timers who just get a badge to get a power trip.

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yonmei
2009-10-11 10:00 am UTC (link)

But the permit is to protect those protesting-

Ideally, yes, the protesters tell the police where they're going to protest, and the police ensure they can do so safely. That's how it should work.

But, if the protest happens without giving the police notice, it's still the job of the police to ensure that the protesters can protest safely. Granted it makes their job more difficult for them when it happens unexpectedly, but given that meetings of the G8-20 always include protests, it's not like this was unexpected. The police showed up with riot shields and tear gas: they knew there was going to be a protest: they chose to turn it into a riot.

But I can see how quickly it can get out of hand with just one simple comment or rock throw- and this is assuming that all of the police are not corrupt/trouble-makers/half timers who just get a badge to get a power trip.

Indeed. In the particular part of the UK where I live, when G8 was here, I happen to know one of the things the local police force were genuinely worried about wasn't so much troublemakers among the protesters - it was police who'd volunteered to be loaned from other regions where the forces have a considerably more aggressive attitude: there have been a lot of incidents in London, for example, where the police decided to turn a large peaceful protest into a goddamn riot by attacking the protesters. And then it only takes a few people from those attacked to respond by throwing something, to have the police justify an assault by claiming they'd been attacked - even though the situation ends up with many civilian casualties and no one harmed in the police force.

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wingedrivers
2009-10-09 06:13 pm UTC (link)

This just looks like a whole mess of bad. You have the fuckin' idiots with the hankerchiefs probably putting the police on edge 'cause they're fucking THROWING shit and breaking windows and shoving a flippin' DUMPSTER into them. Then the police are gonna be super agitated and do the unnessessary shit to the students, such as the tear gas in the stairwell and the bringing down of that girl who would not fuckin' move (though, to me at least, it's kind of stupid to try and stand there in front of them and not expect some sortive retaliation).

The entire thing was bad- why the fuck they pick Pittsburgh?

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	randomsome1 2009-10-09 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	The last bit there is more effective with the full vid--the girl was obviously drunk and didn't know what was going on, her dreadded-out boyfriend was obviously trying to pull her away, and the cops attacked and beat both of them. Remember that this was Friday night in Oakland on Rush weekend: the streets were crawling with drunk freshmen as par for the course. (Reply to this) (Parent)

yonmei
2009-10-09 06:48 pm UTC (link)

You have the fuckin' idiots with the hankerchiefs probably putting the police on edge 'cause they're fucking THROWING shit and breaking windows and shoving a flippin' DUMPSTER into them.

Actually, you have the fuckin' police with the riot shields trying - and succeeding! - in putting protesters on edge, and instigating the kind of violence that "justifies" police attack on all civilians.

The entire thing was bad- why the fuck they pick Pittsburgh?

Why not? They could apparently rely on the riot police to quell any attempt at protest, and they didn't need to worry that most Americans would care that their Constitution was getting shredded. Evidently.

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wingedrivers
2009-10-11 02:42 am UTC (link)

The other protesters had their peaceful protests. At least from what I know, the guys in the hankerchiefs (the Anarchists, right?) were causing trouble from the get-go. I'm not claiming that what the police did is right, especially to the poor kids who didn't do anything, but I guess I'm just mad at the thought of those people coming to the city with the pure intent of non-peaceful protesting. If they're against "Big Brother", then why in the hell break a window of a small business, set things on fire, and overall massive destructive behavior?

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yonmei
2009-10-11 10:04 am UTC (link)

I see no justification for breaking shop windows, I agree. But there's no justification for mass punishment of people who aren't breaking shop windows (and didn't want to).

What happened at the only G8 protest I've been to is that a bunch of people who'd showed up who had the apparent intent of non-peaceful protesting... got surrounded. Seriously. Everyone else was having a large peaceful mass demo: I'd noticed the all-in-black anarchist guys earlier and then didn't see them during the mass demo: I was told that what had happened was they spent the entire mass demo in a square formed by police. No one else, just them. Now that's effective policing.

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