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randomsome1 ([info]randomsome1) wrote,
@ 2008-01-26 13:19:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:in ur novel eatin ur book, rant

Society is fucked.
So I've picked up, cracked open, and put down the Twilight series a couple times now. What I've seen has done nothing but piss me off. WTFPlot? WTFUrple writing style? WTF, hundred year old anybody wants to be in high school again? WTF, he touches her and she turns into orgasmic goo? WTF, he calls her an idiot and it's okay? WTF, is this girl intent on proving him right? WTFSPARKLY VAMPIRES?!

[info]newageamazon has made it through more of the books than I have. Mentioning Stephanie Meyer will invariably set her off on a high-volume rant. Thusly.

Note that with this rant, she's questioning what it is in today's society that's made a runaway bestseller series out of the romanticizing of a decidedly abusive relationship, where the guy treats the girl like shit and constantly tries to control her (Telling her where she can and can't go, or who she can and can't be friends with, WTF? Disabling her car or locking her in her house or emotionally crushing her "for her own good," WTF? Telepathic stalking, WTF?!) and the girl's entire existence revolves solely around him.


And people come trolling in to prove that our collective worst fears are true.

    for NINETY percent of the time, Edward DOESN'T treat Bella like property. I think when girls say they want a boyfriend like Edward, they mean they want a boyfriend who is a gentleman, which Edward mostly is. Like I said earlier, Edward definitely has his issues with being overprotective, but the thing is he DOES love Bella - he doesn't just say it, he shows it in the books.
Because it's okay if the guy treats the girl like property as long as it's not the majority of the time? Because it's okay because he's supposed to love her--because the author tells us he loves her and he says it a few times?
    the attraction to Edward is that he's a gentleman...not so much him. Some of the traits that can be considered as abuse like the ones listed above (while bigoted) aren't necessarily abuse. That's over the top protection.
. . . Words failing.
    IT IS A BOOK,
    i think that if half of you guys just got laid
    your lives would be filled with more than bashing Edward Cullen,=.
And that one just speaks for itself.
    Edward is dead, see, and he's not controlling! When did he once control bella?
. . .
    Now using his "charm" to get her to do what he wants, wouldn't most people do that? I mean seriously, think about it: if you had the ability to make someone do ANYTHING you wanted them to, just by looking at them, wouldnt you use that? and if you say no to that, there is just no reasoning with you. And as for the controlling her, he is doing what he thinks is best. Now we may know that what is actually doing is not the best choice, but he doesnt know that!
So it's okay because he can. Or because he thinks he's justified.

I wanna see a fight to the death between Edward Cullen and Richard Rahl. May the most self-justified asshole win!
    And yes, Edward has his moments of being opinionated and controlling, but I sware to you, he does care for Bella. Until he found Bella, he had spent many years alone. Would you want to lose something so great after having waited for so long to finally get it?

    In the fact of him leaving her, he was trying to be selfless. He was giving her an opportunity to live her life, without him being involved in it. As for him dragging her along to prom, it was another case of wanting her to live as a human. He didn't want her to miss such a great experience. Edward has given Bella countless chances for her to to leave him, especially for Jacob. She is one who chooses to stay.
It's okay because he's been alone! It's okay because he felt she needed to have experiences, no matter what she wanted for herself! It's okay because she chose to stay with him!



Miseryxchord sums it all up pretty well towards the bottom:
    miseryxchord: 01/25/2008 5:03 AM
    Wow. Reading the comments here has been very educational... apparently:

    1) It's okay to totally trash someone's opinion, accuse them of overreacting, and belittle their concerns, as long as you tack "but I respect your opinion" onto it.

    2) If someone has an opinion that disagrees with yours, you should repeatedly lecture them on your right to disagree with them, while acting like they have no right to disagree with you.

    3) The number of people who are excusing an abusive character's actions because 'He really loves her' or 'he's a gentleman the rest of the time' or 'he's only controlling because (insert excuse here)' totally justifiy Ashly's concerns for young women living in a society where they apparently believe an abusive person is a great catch, fiction or not. THEY (the people commenting here) are in the real world, and THEY are making excuses for his behavior in terms of a real person... he loves her, so it's okay.



So today we've learned that it's okay to squeal over a fictional character, but it's wrong wrong wrong to point out that character's faults or that they're built to be an exceptionally shitty person. We've also learned that excuses for the emotional abuse of a fictional character look almost exactly like the excuses given by someone in an abusive relationship. And that society is fucked.






And that spaghetti-o's plus the flu = nothing good. From an unrelated IM:

[info]slinkeepie087 (2:01:24 PM): you know what is nasty to throw up?
[info]slinkeepie087 (2:01:35 PM): Spaghetti-Os that are in the shape of letters
[info]slinkeepie087 (2:01:46 PM): at one point i was like... oooh maybe i can throw up words!
[info]slinkeepie087 (2:04:51 PM): i thought... in that sick way you are when you're vomiting.. for a quick second it was like... man if i threw up "Bbbblllllaaarrrrrghhhhh" id take a picture.

(Post a new comment)


[info]korinacaffeine.livejournal.com
2008-01-27 02:19 am UTC (link)
Gah. I admit that I used to like Twilight (for, like, I think a week), but when I picked it up and skimmed through it again it sort of hit me.

I never did like Edward, though. Nor the werewolf-guy-whatshisname. The diction could have used some work (bored me to tears at times) and I thought it was pretty terrible what Bella/Belle/whatever treated her dad. 'kay, where's the respect in that? It made me angry.

There was a time when I actually wanted to read the sequel(s) to see if Meyer upped the ante even a little bit, but I really don't want to now. :/

And the movie? I shudder to think.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-01-27 02:46 am UTC (link)
I hear that she's gonna write another full book that'll be the first book, only from Edward's POV. Cashing in much? I still maintain that if you couldn't show a character's thoughts or motives the first time around--to the extent that you feel the need to rewrite the whole damned thing from their POV--then that reflects terribly on your writing abilities.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]threeoranges
2008-01-27 03:41 am UTC (link)
Yes. Yes. MFYES.

I barely made it to the end of TWILIGHT before throwing it to the floor* and swearing to down a Drano cocktail before reading any more of this over-hyped, empty-headed garbage.

Reviews like [info]lillyv's and this one by sidewalk-doctor cheer my soul. A friend of mine pointed out the disturbing race politics going on (Native Americans = werewolves; Aryan-looking whites = vampires? OH DEAR) and now I see the sequel's dodgy from a gender relations p.o.v. as well.

People looking back on this fifty years hence will wonder what young women were ON, to find it even vaguely readable!




* I then picked it up, dusted it off and returned it to the library

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-01-27 08:41 am UTC (link)
Here's to hoping it won't even be remembered in fifty years.

Race mess too? Oh dear.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]necole-m.livejournal.com
2008-01-27 11:58 am UTC (link)
I've read all three books. I don't even remember, what, if anything about the first book I didn't like because the second and third were so obnoxious. I hated Bella. Everyone can talk about how controlling Edward was or whatever, but I have no idea because Bella was so freaking annoying.

She spent the entire second book crying over the fact that Edward had left her. Pages upon pages of it and all I could think was they were only dating for like six months. All the while leading Jacob on - who, in my opinion, was the only decent character, even though he does some asshole things in the third book. Not to mention she starts doing insanely stupid and increasing dangerous things because she will hallucinate Edward's voice and just wanted to hear him again. And just when she's about to accept that he's gone and return Jacob's love, Edward conveniently shows up again. Blah.

The third book has her whining over wanting to become a vampire and have sex the entire time. Edward finally agrees to turn her, after graduation and if she'll marry him. Bella freaks outs because ZOMG! She cannot get married right after high school! But she HAS to become a vampire now or she'll get too old! And I'm left thinking, right, you'll give up your mortal soul for this guy and spend the rest of eternity with him but you won't marry him first? *eye roll*

She plays Jacob and Edward against each other. Then there's that weird visitation thing they have going on for a while. My favorite part was the camping at the end of the book. The three of them out in a tent in the middle of a freak snow storm. So of course! Bella *has* to cuddle with Jacob all night or SHE'LL DIE! T_T

Gah. I'll end up reading the fourth book anyway.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-01-27 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Lol--Don't do it! Unless it's purely for the masochism value and you're not buying it. Every dollar you spend on those books validates the author.


Part of [info]lillyv's rant about Bella was the dangerous stuff bit--where she isn't doing it because she thinks it's fun, or because she likes it, but because it's when she's racing on the motorcycle (when she can't drive a car by herself) or whatever that she hears Edward's voice. I understand that it's nice to be attached to a guy but for fuck's sake now. If you have so little of a sense of self . . . Grr.

And her "And he kissed me and I lost any sense of restraint!" scenes made me wanna stab my eyes out.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]necole-m.livejournal.com
2008-01-28 12:17 am UTC (link)
It is for mostly masochistic reasons that I want the fourth one. I'm just one of those people that has to know what happens next. I think in all my time of reading I've only put a couple of books down and not finished them. I think I stopped reading the Left Behind series about four books in and I tossed a Danielle Steele book two chapters in.

Despite all the stuff that made me want to bang my head against the wall, I enjoyed the books. There were some really great moments and Jacob was especially sweet. Then again, I'm hormonal and pregnant so don't take my word for it. ;p

Bella could possibly be one of the worst characters I've ever encountered. Even in the first book when she doesn't even know Edward she just goes along with whatever he says. Sure, he's hot, but at some point you've gotta ask yourself what's really going on.

And sparkley vampires! WTF-no!

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-28 12:30 am UTC

[info]newageamazon
2008-01-27 10:33 pm UTC (link)
(pssst: using this name over here. Trying to switch over to it exclusively :D)

I loved how I was told to get a life. As if I've ranted about this multiple times. Out of 1,018 posts, three or four have mentioned Twilight, only one has been EXCLUSIVELY about Twilight, and that was the rant. You'd think I made a habit of ripping it apart, rather than just normally saying "I don't like that book."

Also consider what I mentioned there was probably only about 1/8th of my actual problem with the series. We didn't even really get into Bella's character...or lack thereof!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-01-27 10:49 pm UTC (link)
Ok, will tweak.

I just keep looking at the success of series like that and telling myself that I can't go wrong.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]newageamazon
2008-01-27 11:39 pm UTC (link)
You know, they say sparkly teenage vampire love is the purest love of all ♥

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-27 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-01-27 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-27 11:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-01-27 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-27 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-01-27 11:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-27 11:54 pm UTC
Long comment liek whoa
[info]sirena_lune
2008-01-28 03:12 am UTC (link)
You know, I actually liked the series. I never saw it as True Love, though, as they were so obviously obsessed with one another. XDD But then, I love reading about obsessive "love", I just wish authors would indulge me every once and a while with making it all crash and burn. Nothing's better then watching it all go to pieces. :D

And, well, I never bother to analyze novels all the time. 'Cause then I'd never find anything good to read again... *cries*

I'm actually glad Bella didn't end up with Jacob, 'cause she was totally taking advantage over his feelings for her, saying "I don't want to give you the wrong idea" and then giving him the wrong idea. If she were a guy and Jake was a girl and it was in his--er, "her"--POV then everyone would hate Bella. I hope...

I like to think that at least a percentage of the people who commented there responded the way they did because they rushed to defend a novel they enjoyed and not because they wholeheartedly believed that what Edward did was not only justified but admirable. But then, I like to think that there's still hope for humanity. ^^U

It's okay because she chose to stay with him!
IMO that's kind of alright, 'cause if she can't see his actions towards her as abusive then there's no point in getting stressed. I think my reasoning here is that even if I see his actions as abusive that maybe she doesn't see it that way and if that's the case I should just pray that she'll take action the moment she does see his actions as abusive. Everyone has their own limits and we should realize that even if we don't respect or understand it. Kind of like how it'll take a lot for me to feel uncomfortable around touchy-feely people and yet on the other hand I have a friend who goes twitchy if we so much as pet her hair. >_>;;

As for the sparkly vamps, I kinda squeed there. I mean, just think about it. A couple hundred years ago this uber religious person comes across who they think is an angel... and then they're dead.

I think the Twilight series is a little addicting though, and I can't wait for the next books, especially the Edward POV one. I just hope that it's as seriously fucked up as it seems. XDDDD

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Long comment liek whoa
[info]newageamazon
2008-01-28 04:25 am UTC (link)
Speaking as someone who was in an emotionally abusive relationship where I didn't see the abuse but all of my friends did? It's NOT okay. Just because she can't see the abuse doesn't mean it's not there. A lot of my point is that women don't see the kind of treatment as abuse because it doesn't leave any physical marks and because it's just "a man being a man" or "looking out for her" or "being overprotective." They don't see it as a power thing, which is what it really boils down to. There are guys who really get a thrill, sexually or otherwise, out of knowing they can make women feel weaker and stupider than they are.

Bella can't see what he's doing to her, and none of her friends are in a position to tell her...aside from Jacob...because Edward has cut her off from the friends that could. That in and of itself is TEXTBOOK abusive. He treats Bella like she should make him her world...and she responds by doing so. The problem is when you make one person your world, and are THAT dependent on them for your own validation and happiness? NOTHING good will come of it. At least, not in real life.

They might live happily ever after in the end of the novels, but in real life that sort of treatment can drive a girl to depression, possibly even suicide attempts, and if she can't see the abuse she might not even realize why. Or worse, think the problems are all in her, that she's doing something wrong, that it's all her fault. And a boyfriend like that will only do what he can to perpetuate that belief in her.

Sorry, I just get VERY upset over people defending relationships like that.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Long comment liek whoa
[info]sirena_lune
2008-01-28 11:15 am UTC (link)
Sorry, I just get VERY upset over people defending relationships like that.

No need to apologize. It's not like you were rude about it. ^^U

I guess I just don't understand how someone can be in a relationship where the other person treats them like shit and not see that they're being treated like shit? Actually doing something about it when they're isolated is something else, but how can't they see it? DDDX <- I know that there's probably a perfect explanation for this, but I don't think I'll ever really understand unless I've personally gone through it.

And as for the whole defending relationships like that, I don't really. It's just that I consider Bella/Edward to be a fictional relationship and so I just can't bring myself to care, really. Bella wasn't really developed as an individual without Edward so I can't really feel "Noo! Stay away from that asshole!" like I have with other series with a more developed female character (the manga NANA, for example). If it was a real person in the real world, then I would feel protective, but since it's not, eh...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Long comment liek whoa - [info]newageamazon, 2008-01-28 09:31 pm UTC
Re: Long comment liek whoa - [info]sirena_lune, 2008-01-29 07:55 pm UTC
Re: Long comment liek whoa - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-30 02:12 am UTC
Re: Long comment liek whoa
[info]randomsome1
2008-01-28 04:27 am UTC (link)
Hey, I still find good things to read. They're just few and far between, and usually not in the YA section.

And as the defenders were defending Edward's actions . . . Yeah, no hope here.


IMO that's kind of alright, 'cause if she can't see his actions towards her as abusive then there's no point in getting stressed.

Picture, thousand words, you know the drill. So rather than tl;dr about the mentality of abuse victims, the social condemnation of abuse victims by people who don't understand that mentality, and the abuse that said victims (having had their self-esteem pretty much obliterated) will heap upon themselves ("Why didn't I leave? Why did I let him do this? Will it never be better than this? But he said he loved me!"), I'll bring ya a kitty.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Long comment liek whoa
[info]sirena_lune
2008-01-28 10:45 am UTC (link)
Aw, poor kitty. TT_TT

It's not like I haven't read/heard about what abuse victims go through. I have and I even understand it to a point. It's just that I find it kind of hard to be sympathetic when I haven't been through it or really know anyone who's gone through it. I'm not going to spout false sympathy. :/

I'd say that "I didn't mean it like that!" but I pretty much did, so yeah...

Why do I have the feeling that this comment is going to bite me back in the ass one day?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Long comment liek whoa - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-28 10:47 pm UTC
Re: Long comment liek whoa - [info]sirena_lune, 2008-01-29 07:48 pm UTC

[info]shikomekidomi
2008-01-30 02:01 am UTC (link)
Society's been screwed up for a long, long time in certain respects.
In a minor point, how many people went to highschool a hundred years ago? Maybe it's a novel experience, so they didn't realize it was going to suck.
I'd say something witty about this author's lack of talent but maybe I didn't sleep last night.
Maybe, aside from a two hour nap in the middle of yesterday, I've been awake twenty five hours.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-01-30 02:05 am UTC (link)
Bah! Go sleep!


I did discuss Edward's behavior in relation to Heathcliff's behavior in Wuthering Heights with a literary-minded coworker and we may have come to the decision that it's not that society's gotten worse, but that nothing's changed. Which is still awful.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]shikomekidomi
2008-01-30 02:13 am UTC (link)
See, that's what I always am inclined to favor. Personal analysis shows that people change slooowly and usually only on certain kinds of things, both as individuals and groups. Thus, if these kinds of issues have improved, which is possible, it wouldn't be by that much in a mere century or whenever it was that Wuthering Heights was written because my brain isn't working.
And I can't actually sleep yet. Three hours of meetings start in fifty minutes or so. Oh, I'll come off good, I'm sure.
The fact I'm keeping myself awake entirely with an internal track of maniacal laughter hardly shows.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-30 02:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shikomekidomi, 2008-01-30 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-01-30 02:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shikomekidomi, 2008-01-30 02:40 am UTC

[info]wingedrivers
2008-01-31 02:17 am UTC (link)
O_o; I haven't been around the Ij for a while, hence teh late comment, but holy shit man! It's utterly amazing to see how much people will defend without truly understanding/knowing what they're defending.

I have to wonder if the author herself was in a relationship like that, or is in one. Because she's crazy if she's writing that and thinking 'it's perfectly fine to introduce this kind of a relationship to very easily persuaded teenagers!'

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-01-31 08:37 am UTC (link)
I know that this wanders way too close to "But think of the children!", but it's still being marketed to children as romance/true love. And that bothers me a lot.

And the author's a Mormon--take what you will from that.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]wingedrivers
2008-02-01 03:07 am UTC (link)
O_O That changes things considerably. I've heard that some Mormons have loving households, but the majority of them are essentially emotionally abusive environments to children and the women. The men practically walk around with their egos on their sleeves and constantly place the women/children in power struggles...

Now I'm feeling kind of bad for the author. Perhaps she truly believes that an emotionally abusive relationship is normal...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-02-01 08:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mist_stalker, 2008-02-20 06:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-02-20 01:22 pm UTC

[info]newageamazon
2008-02-02 09:19 am UTC (link)
IT'S STILL GETTING COMMENTS.

... You people are all idiots (with the exception of those who do like twilight)
I have no problems with peoples opinions when they are spoken in a mature way, not spat out like four year olds.
You all quite obviously have issues with romance and if you are so close minded that you can no longer tell the diffrence between 'overprotective' and 'abusive' may i suggest that you should see a pychologist of some type or another.
If you have issues with writers who are better then you could ever be it is extremely stupid for you to go around and abuse them, this is cretainly not being mature and if you keep acting that way people will begin treating you that way.
You might want to go and do a bit more reading and research before you start making bias and rediculous assumption because of jelousy.
Edward, fro the record, is a gentleman and shows alot more maturity then any of you seem to be showing and if you actually pay attention you might actually realize that he does love her and he does evrything that he does for her.
You might want to grow up because your silly over-reactions and psychotic problems arnt exactly acceptable in normal socity. This goes for all twilight haters:
Its time to grow up and get a better psychologist.


My private reply:

Um, hi. Just wanted to reply to your comment in my Twilight blog without starting another mess in the comments.

First off, there was no need to call anyone an "idiot" for not liking a series of books. And I was hardly "abusing" anything with that rant.

Secondly? You ask me to do research about abusive relationships? I have. Mostly because I was IN one. Many of Edward's actions (cutting Bella off from her friends, directing what she can and can't do "for her own good" and especially the incident where he locks her in the house) are TEXTBOOK emotional abuse. He never hits her. He doesn't have to.

There is a huge difference between being a gentleman and being an abusive, controlling jerk. Edward crosses that line many times in the series.

I suggest YOU do some research about the difference between abuse and romance, because it's more dangerous to confuse them the way you have. I say this because I did at one point and am still dealing with the psychological fall out.

If he really loved her he wouldn't treat her like property the way he does, he wouldn't treat her like a child even to protect her.

As for being "bitter" about being a better writer? Meyer IS a weak writer. Enjoying the books is not a problem, enjoy them all you want, be recognize the faults. Her writing is weak and Edward is hardly a catch.

I'm sure if you do reply you're going to tell me how wrong I am. But I'm going to end with this: if I need a better psychologist, it's all because of what my own "Edward" did to me. And I'm angry because I don't want to see girls like you or anyone else go through what I did all because they were condition by a society that accepts that kind of treatment of women.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]randomsome1
2008-02-02 10:56 am UTC (link)
Isn't there a Jurisimprudence law about when these kids bring "maturity" into things that have jack shit to do with maturity?


And Ij rocks appropriately: The top of my page now says 'Tweak says, "I'm incapacitated with fear."'

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-02-02 10:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-02-02 10:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-02-02 11:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-02-02 11:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-02-02 11:02 am UTC

[info]randomsome1
2008-02-02 10:56 am UTC (link)
And btw: After that post, Tweak says, "i've got more wit."

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]newageamazon, 2008-02-02 11:07 am UTC

[info]tail-fear.livejournal.com
2008-02-05 01:01 am UTC (link)
I read random's post, then went back to the original rant, and I have come to two conclusions: 1) People obviously can't read disclaimers, and 2) Teenage girls are stupid.

Part of #2 comes with the territory (which I am thankfully leaving in a week), and #1 comes with the fact that everyone now seems to think that they are entitled to an opinion because it is the Internet and because they are oh so obviously right.

I am waiting for the day that the Internet comes with a bitchslap option, because half of the comments deserved it and I am not also very pissed off.

There is a difference between overprotective and abusive, and it sounds like most of these girls won't see when that line is being crossed. Just because the guy "loves" you does not make everything okay.

Psychological abuse is like a trap and once you're ensnared it is extremely hard to get out of because if there is a problem the first solution is "There is something I can do better", not "He really shouldn't treat me like that".

And now I will quit cluttering up random's journal...I was more worked up than I thought.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tail-fear.livejournal.com, 2008-02-05 01:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2008-02-05 09:50 am UTC


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